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Cet épisode propose un entretien avec Marilyn Miller, Chief People Officer chez Netskope. Marilyn est responsable des fonctions de ressources humaines de Netskope au niveau mondial, y compris l'expérience des employés et l'acquisition de talents. Elle a plus de 20 ans d'expérience dans des fonctions RH à haute visibilité, notamment chez Anaplan, Alfresco et Cisco Systems.

Dans cet épisode, Mike et Marilyn discutent de l'intégration de la sécurité dans le tissu de votre organisation, de la collaboration avec les DSI et les RSSI, et de l'utilisation de la narration pour attirer les talents.

Je crois beaucoup à la nécessité de se demander comment éduquer, comment enrôler, comment parler de l'importance de la sécurité, comment l'intégrer dans le tissu et la culture de l'entreprise. Et tout le monde comprend sa responsabilité en matière de sécurité et de protection des données.

-Marylin Miller, Chief People Officer chez Netskope
Marilyn Miller

 

Horodatage

*(02:33) : Le parcours de Marilyn pour devenir Chief People Officer*(26:45) : Comment la pandémie a changé le travail hybride et ce que Marilyn espère voir perdurer.
*(04:44) : Comment Marilyn travaille avec les responsables de la sécurité pour recruter des talents.*(33:56) : Conseils de Marilyn aux Chief People Officers d'autres organisations
*(11:55) : Comment Marilyn a vu la cybersécurité devenir une valeur de l'entreprise*(36:42) : Comment obtenir plus de diversité dans le domaine de la sécurité
*(18:58) : Exemples d'hygiène de sécurité personnelle transposés au bureau*(39:38) : Les coups de cœur
(21:53) : Exemples de partenariats entre les DSI et les RSSI, d'une part, et les responsables des ressources humaines, d'autre part

 

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Dans cet épisode

Marilyn Miller
Chief People Officer chez Netskope

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Marilyn Miller

Marilyn Miller est responsable de l'ensemble des fonctions de ressources humaines de Netskope, y compris l'expérience des employés et l'acquisition de talents, afin de soutenir la croissance rapide de la main-d'œuvre de Netskope.

Marilyn a récemment occupé le poste de Chief People Officer chez Anaplan, où elle a aidé l'entreprise à franchir plusieurs étapes de croissance, y compris un premier appel public à l'épargne couronné de succès. Elle apporte à Netskope plus de 20 ans d'expérience dans des postes à haute visibilité dans le domaine des ressources humaines et de l'acquisition de talents, notamment pour Alfresco, Quotient Technology, AECOM, BMC Software et Cisco Systems.

Connectez-vous avec Marilyn sur LinkedIn

Mike Anderson
Chief Digital & Information Officer chez Netskope

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Mike Anderson

Mike Anderson est Chief Digital and Information Officer pour Netskope. Au cours des 25 dernières années, il a constitué et dirigé des équipes performantes dans diverses disciplines, notamment les ventes, les opérations, le développement commercial et les technologies de l'information. Il a rejoint Netskope après avoir travaillé pour Schneider Electric, une société internationale classée dans les 500 premières entreprises mondiales, en tant que vice-président directeur et leader numérique pour l'Amérique du Nord. En 2020, Constellation Research l'a nommé membre du Business Transformation 150, une liste d'élite qui reconnaît les meilleurs dirigeants mondiaux menant des efforts de transformation dans leurs organisations. Le Conseil national de la diversité l'a également reconnu comme l'un des 50 meilleurs DSI pour la diversité et l'inclusion en 2020 et 2021. Avant Schneider Electric, Mike a été DSI de CROSSMARK, où il a transformé numériquement les capacités commerciales de ce fournisseur de services aux 40 000 employés du secteur de la vente au détail et des biens de consommation. Il a également occupé des postes de direction chez Enterprise Mobile, une coentreprise de Microsoft qui fait maintenant partie de Honeywell, Insight, Software Spectrum et InVerge, un pionnier des services web qu'il a cofondé en 1999. Mike siège à de nombreux conseils consultatifs technologiques et industriels et travaille bénévolement avec des organisations à but non lucratif axées sur la santé mentale et la prévention du suicide, ainsi que sur le développement de notre future main-d'œuvre dans les domaines des sciences, de la technologie, de l'ingénierie et des mathématiques.

Marilyn Miller

Marilyn Miller est responsable de l'ensemble des fonctions de ressources humaines de Netskope, y compris l'expérience des employés et l'acquisition de talents, afin de soutenir la croissance rapide de la main-d'œuvre de Netskope.

Marilyn a récemment occupé le poste de Chief People Officer chez Anaplan, où elle a aidé l'entreprise à franchir plusieurs étapes de croissance, y compris un premier appel public à l'épargne couronné de succès. Elle apporte à Netskope plus de 20 ans d'expérience dans des postes à haute visibilité dans le domaine des ressources humaines et de l'acquisition de talents, notamment pour Alfresco, Quotient Technology, AECOM, BMC Software et Cisco Systems.

Connectez-vous avec Marilyn sur LinkedIn

Mike Anderson

Mike Anderson est Chief Digital and Information Officer pour Netskope. Au cours des 25 dernières années, il a constitué et dirigé des équipes performantes dans diverses disciplines, notamment les ventes, les opérations, le développement commercial et les technologies de l'information. Il a rejoint Netskope après avoir travaillé pour Schneider Electric, une société internationale classée dans les 500 premières entreprises mondiales, en tant que vice-président directeur et leader numérique pour l'Amérique du Nord. En 2020, Constellation Research l'a nommé membre du Business Transformation 150, une liste d'élite qui reconnaît les meilleurs dirigeants mondiaux menant des efforts de transformation dans leurs organisations. Le Conseil national de la diversité l'a également reconnu comme l'un des 50 meilleurs DSI pour la diversité et l'inclusion en 2020 et 2021. Avant Schneider Electric, Mike a été DSI de CROSSMARK, où il a transformé numériquement les capacités commerciales de ce fournisseur de services aux 40 000 employés du secteur de la vente au détail et des biens de consommation. Il a également occupé des postes de direction chez Enterprise Mobile, une coentreprise de Microsoft qui fait maintenant partie de Honeywell, Insight, Software Spectrum et InVerge, un pionnier des services web qu'il a cofondé en 1999. Mike siège à de nombreux conseils consultatifs technologiques et industriels et travaille bénévolement avec des organisations à but non lucratif axées sur la santé mentale et la prévention du suicide, ainsi que sur le développement de notre future main-d'œuvre dans les domaines des sciences, de la technologie, de l'ingénierie et des mathématiques.

Transcription de l'épisode

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Marilyn Miller: We talk about security as a team sport and a shared responsibility and accountability. I think the more that you can drive it from it's instilled in your culture and your values, you have less of a dependency then on the policing and the policy requirements of it. You still need to have those things in place. But I believe a lot in how do we educate, how do we enroll, how do we talk about the importance? How do we make it part of the fabric and culture of the company? And everybody understands their responsibility around data security and the protection of it.

Speaker: Hello and welcome to Security Visionaries. You just heard from today's guest, Marilyn Miller, chief People Officer at Netskope. Establishing security as a team sport is more than just implementing policy requirements. It starts with weaving it into your culture and values. From hiring to onboarding to employment, people need to be educated on the critical responsibilities they hold in keeping their organization safe. Before we dive into Marilyn's interview, here's a brief word from our sponsor.

Sponsor: The Security Visionaries podcast is powered by the team at Netskope. At Netskope, we are redefining cloud, data and network security with a platform that provides optimized access and zero trust security for people, devices, and data anywhere they go. To learn more about how Netskope helps customers be ready for anything on their SASE journey, visit N-E-T-S-K-O-P-E.com.

Speaker: Without further ado, please enjoy episode 16 of Security Visionaries with Marilyn Miller, chief People Officer at Netskope, and your host Mike Anderson.

Mike Anderson: I want to welcome everyone to today's episode of our Security Visionaries podcast. I'm Mike Anderson. I'm the Chief Digital and Information Officer at Netskope. I'm excited today to be joined by our Chief People Officer, Marilyn Miller. What's interesting about this is when Marilyn first joined, she was on a town hall and she was introducing herself and she talked about how she had partnered with the CIOs in her past companies as they thought about security policies and how those impacted the organization and how they could work together on that change. And it was at that moment when we thought about our theme for this year has been security as a team sport, I said, "All right, Marilyn is coming down on the podcast. We're going to talk about this." So Marilyn, welcome. Why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself and maybe your journey to Netskope and maybe your journey as a Chief People Officer?

Marilyn Miller: First of all, thank you so much for having me. I was very excited to be able to have this conversation with you today. So yeah, I've spent my entire career in human resources. I've been a chief people officer for probably the last decade. I grew up as an HR business partner, but I think when you get to the chief people officer side of it, you get to see all aspects of the function. When I think about what my role as chief people officer, I'd probably talk about it today in two different contexts. The first one being, ultimate responsibility, can we attract and retain the necessary talent for our stage and size and growth, the business models and how we execute the business strategy? So that's one big piece of it.
But I think the other side of it is setting the policies and the procedures as well as the culture of the company. And I think it's that culture piece, blending the talent, attraction and retention as well as the policy side of it that I think is going to be most interesting for today's conversation is how do you craft a company culture that's inclusive of all the responsibilities that each of our employees have?

Mike Anderson: I totally agree, and it was interesting when I was at Schneider Electric before this, we'd always start every meeting with a safety briefing where we talk about where is the exit, how do you get out of the building, what are all the things you need to be mindful of, especially in a manufacturing environment? And always had this ambition. I'm like, "I want to have cybersecurity be part of that safety briefing. How do we be safe at this meeting?" Remember when we're at a hotel where the exits are but also remember, put your laptop in your safe. That's one of the things I want in the safety briefing. I'm really interested in your perspective as we get more on this topic.
So you brought up a good point right there around talent. And I know that today if we look in cybersecurity IT across all positions, we have a workforce challenge trying to find the right talent, how do we retain the people we have? How do we up-skill them? How do we attract talent? Talk to me a little bit about when you're partnering up with CIOs and security leaders around recruiting talent, how are you helping them think about that problem in bringing those people on?

Marilyn Miller: Yeah, and you mentioned it at the very beginning. My own journey with Netskope started with the partnership that I had at my previous organization with the CIO. We were getting ready to roll out a whole new set of security technology inclusive of Netskope. And when the CIO came to me and said, "Hey listen, we're going to get a lot of questions around, particularly from our engineering teams of, 'Gosh, how much visibility are we going to have into their own traffic if they were using any of the company devices to check the movie schedules or online shopping?'" And so one of the things we talked about was, "Listen, what's our responsibility as an organization? Our customers expect that we keep their data secure. Our employees expect we keep their data secure. And so this whole culture of security started to reveal itself and we had to talk about it and put it in the context of the culture for the organization.
One, it's everybody's responsibility. We have a duty of care and a duty of responsibility to a number of these different constituents. How do we enroll them in being part of the solution and the decisions and the requirement and the understanding and how it does fit into who we are as a company and the kind of employer that we want to be? And so I think that's what's really shaped the way that I think about the partnerships. We talk about security as a team sport and a shared responsibility and accountability. I think the more that you can drive it from it's instilled in your culture and your values, you have less of a dependency than on the policing and the policy requirements of it. You still need to have those things in place. But I believe a lot in how do we educate, how do we enroll, how do we talk about the importance, how do we make it part of the fabric and culture of the company? And everybody understands their responsibility around data security and the protection of it.

Mike Anderson: Yeah, that's a good point. I think about tech companies, especially in the Valley area. We've got a lot of companies that are pre-IPO tech companies. The source code is the most sensitive data they want to protect. And I think about developers and if that developer that's across from me decides to leave, do I really want them taking our source code and going to a competitor or someone else, because that then impacts the value I have as a shareholder, which is part of the reason I probably came to the startup is I'm hoping there's an exit at some point, whether it's an IPO or an acquisition. When you've had those conversations with developers, has that ever been something that's come up around protecting their own, the value of what they have as a company?

Marilyn Miller: Yeah. And I think it comes from people want to be part of a values-based, mission-driven, high culture company. At the heart of that is the trust, the transparency, the accountability that comes with it, and the software developers that they want the work that they do to add value to the customers, to add value to their own career goals and enhancements. And they expect that the company is keeping that protected. It's very rare that I'm involved with the security team in the pace of the bad actors, if you will, people trying to steal our data or download company confidential, whether that's customer data, intellectual property source code, or any of that. That's such the rare exceptions. But like I said, you want to make sure you have everything in place in the event that does happen.
I think the majority of our software developers and the people that work on our intellectual property, they're doing it to not just make us, but our customers obviously more secure, the pride that they have in that work and then the trust that they have in us as an organization to be able to protect that work and put it to the highest use and greatest value.

Mike Anderson: No, 100%. I mean, I think, you hit the nail on that. I think I always say 99% of people are well-intended every day when they come in the office. There's that small 1% that have some mal-intent for whatever reason. But generally, most people wake up every day and they go, "I want to do a great job at work." Most people don't walk up and say, "You know what? I want to do a crappy job at work today," which always becomes, it's not the intentional person. We have lots of ways to find them. It's the unintentional person that just happens to make mistakes because they don't know better or they didn't retain 100% of what they heard in that 30-minute training. What is the stat? I think it's like hear something 22 times before you remember it. I think it's just that it doesn't become brainstem until 22 times. And we're not going to make people do security awareness training 22 times in a year. They probably have a different set of words back for us. So I think it's that unintentional person that concerns me the most.

Marilyn Miller: Yeah, and I think you said it really well, Mike, but we try to start with how do we be proactive on the front end? And so as employees are joining Netskope, we talk about what we do, why we do it, the difference that it makes, that's kind of that mission driven culture, values-based organization. We reinforce that in the onboarding process, like the accountability and responsibility of each and every one of employees, we have the business leaders come in and talk about the solutions that we provide to the marketplace, who our biggest customers are, why they buy from us? We continue to reinforce that through the ongoing training that we provide to employees. And again, we have a backstop there as well where we've got actual written policies around security and data protection.
So we try to build this into the fabric of the organization and I think that's where the strong partnership across the organization, what are we trying to protect? What are we to get in terms of outcomes? How do we have the shared accountability around that? How are we clear about our expectations as well as what the consequences are in the event that we would have someone who intentionally was trying to take data or download things that they shouldn't be. And I think that complete framework is really the place where the chief people officers, along with the CIOs and the chief security officers as well as the business leaders, come together to say, "We each have a role and responsibility to play in protecting our data, protecting our customers, protecting our employees."

Mike Anderson: Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad you're doing that because as a cybersecurity company, the worst thing could ever happen is a breach, right, because the reputational harm it can cause for a cyber company as we've seen from some of the other people in the industry that have had that happen is really bad. Question I have for you. In your journey as a chief people officer, have you seen cybersecurity become part of one of the values of any other companies you've worked with?

Marilyn Miller: I think it's embedded in there. So Mike, I've been at this for so long. When I started in HR, most of what we talked about was physical security. Everybody came to an office. You had these giant campuses, you had such an emphasis on the physical security. At that time, employees weren't working as much remotely. In a lot of cases they weren't even taking the company assets and devices outside of the workplace. Then you sort of evolved to the, "Hey, these global organizations. People are on the move. They want to be working from home evenings, weekends, on occasion. They want to have their own devices." You still have to have, obviously, concern about the physical security, but on a relative basis that's so de-emphasized relative to the data security piece of this. If you think about what's happened in the last two years where overnight you might have went from a small percentage of your employee base working distributively to now in a period of time 100% of your employees, unless you are an essential worker on their own devices from lots of different locations.
So that whole aspect of, "Oh my gosh, how do we protect our data and our information?" I've seen that whole transition and then building that into, as I talked about earlier, the culture and the values and the shared accountability around it. And so I do think a lot of companies are rethinking and if it's not explicitly written in their values, it's assumed and it's communicated as I talked about what we're doing in the onboarding, in the ongoing training, written in their policies on the front end of the communication that they have with their workforce about help keep us safe, help keep our data protected. You've got a lot of global GDPR requirements, lots of things to think about as well as your globally context, which most companies that, or big data companies have a global footprint as well.

Mike Anderson: Yeah, 100%. It's interesting, you brought back going back in the old buildings, I remember when I first started as a software developer, you didn't have web mail. Was using GroupWise to take us back in the time machine and we all were forwarding our emails to our Yahoo mail because we wanted to access it from home so we could work on our home PCs and write code. So I totally remember those days. I would've been that developer probably doing a bad thing if it was in today's world, just because I was trying to get things done in my computer at home. I didn't want to sit in the office until one o'clock in the morning.

Marilyn Miller: Yes, right. I mean, how the world's changed, I remember I had the little fob where the number kept updating every 30 seconds or minute if you were going to come in through your VPN. And that wasn't distributed across the entire organization. It was sort of only assumed a certain kind of role or a certain talent was working remotely and distributively and how the world has changed in a very short period of time. And I love the way that even when you hear Sanjay talk about data is the new sort of oil, if you will, data's what drives the economy. And for enterprises to be able to protect that data and think about it from all aspects at the network level, at the device level, in a highly global and distributed environment, the complexity of it is enormous.
And so I think that I shared, again, kind of shared accountability between who's the employer that we want to be, what do we value, and then how do we actually deliver and execute against that sort of talks about that intersection between the CIOs, the CISOs, the chief people officers having to come together and really craft these kinds of solutions for their organizations.

Mike Anderson: No, 100%. I've always had such a close partnership with the HR organization because some people... HRs who I escalate problems to or HRs who I work with when I need to rethink my talent strategy in my organization, which are obviously two things that are key. But a lot of times it's HR people are so good around the psychology of change and how do you get people to absorb things and right, wrong or indifferent, a lot of people in IT tend to write these encyclopedias of policies that no one ever reads and they just set accept. And so how do you translate that into things people can actually grasp and understand? Maybe you've been doing some of those things even here. How do you take this encyclopedia and take it down to the highlights that people need to care about?

Marilyn Miller: Yeah, and I think it's such a great point, Mike, and again, you need those things. I would encourage companies to have really robust policies and have that included, but it's really the storytelling, the narratives that, what can go wrong, put it into a context, connect with them emotionally and viscerally around why these things are important. And you kind of said it, right. You can probably tell lots of stories of enterprises who had bad things happen and what the outcomes were around that. And employees relate to that kind of storytelling, that kind of narrative, that kind of putting it in context. It gives them that aha moment of one, how serious this is, how big the consequences can be if we don't protect the data or things happen. And you kind of said it too, Netskope itself, we become a bit of a target. If you're on the outside and you're trying to have a data security breach, no better company to do it than to a security company in and of itself.
And so that just raises the requirements for Netskope exponentially because we get targeted. We've got really great data. We've got a super proactive security team. I think one of the first people that, besides you, coming in was spending a lot of time with Lamont Orange and his team really understanding that environment, how they do their jobs, how we can help facilitate that and roll employees around, "Hey, it's not just one team or one group's responsibility. It's the exact number of however many employees we have." If we have 2000 employees, then it's 2000 people's responsibility to keep us safe, keep our data secure and safe. And I think that setting that as a cultural tenant and that shared accountability around it has been super successful for us. And that's getting out and talking to people and like I said, telling the stories and the narratives and the why's and the how's and who our customers are and what they expect from us as well.

Mike Anderson: Now it's interesting, one of the things that I've always felt is really important on security is connect it back to how is it helping you, not just when you're in the office, but personally as well? Because if people's individual security hygiene gets better when they're not in the office, when they're on their home computer dealing with their own financials, their own finances, their own personal information, that then will translate into what we do in the office. How have you seen maybe some good examples here at Netskope beyond where you've seen people help that, how that's played out in a positive way in their organizations?

Marilyn Miller: I think to your point, there's a lot of when you can educate, when you can make people aware, when you can help them understand why these things are important, there is a natural transference then to their personal lives and how they think about securing their own data. Everyone's heard, again, the horror stories, your identity stolen or your bank accounts or credit cards being hacked. And so I think there's a lot of parallels around that. And again, I think that at Netskope what we've done a really good job of is continuing to be out in front of our employees. You kind of said, "Gosh, a lot of times these IT policies and then you have somebody sign something on the way in." It doesn't give them context, it doesn't give them consequences, it doesn't give them accountability when you stay out in front of them and you continue to talk about why it's important.
Again, for me, I go back a lot to think about who our customers are. We have over 2,000 customers, many of them, some of the largest, most complex and/or financial institutions, you want them to be protecting your personal data and we help them protect themselves. It's all in a common ecosystem, if you will, or a connected world that the people we do business with are our customers on a personal basis. I certainly want my personal data with my bank and other institutions to have them be as thoughtful as they can about protecting my data and employees start to really understand how all of these things fit together and why it's so important in terms of not just what we do but how we do it and that we have the deep understanding of the relationships there. And like I said, to me it's building it into your culture, your values, your education, being proactive around that and only using the policy statements as kind of a backstop if something was to go wrong.

Mike Anderson: Yeah, it's kind of like in a commercial relationship, no one ever looks at the contract unless there's a problem. So how do we use that same mindset with our people? It's like we just expect they're not going to read the policy document. So what is it important that we get them to know? What are the highlights that they need to know? We talk about stories, so let me hear a couple stories from you around what are some ways that maybe some good examples and maybe some bad examples or maybe humorous around partnerships with CIOs and CSOs in past organizations. And you don't have to list the name of the company unless it was a positive just to keep people's personal brand intact. But maybe some examples of what good looks like and what bad looks like or maybe something you heard from a peer as a bad example of CIOs and CISOs partnering with their HR and people leaders.

Marilyn Miller: I'll start with some of the good examples and I think that's where we've had leaders and managers come forward and say, "Hey, proactively, how do I make sure that my team understands the environment that we operate in and the expectations that we have?" You mentioned it earlier, people want to come to work and do a good job. They show up every day saying, "Hey, how do I enable the organization? How do I make my best contribution?" And so when I get the stories of managers coming saying especially here at Netskope, how important protecting our data and understanding what we do and how we do it and how we enroll the employees around it. That proactive approach is fantastic. I have had examples at other organizations where I get the phone call of, "Hey, we have an employee who left. We can see all their traffic, everything that they've downloaded and the things that they may be trying to take with them," whether it's a pricing sheet or a customer list or copies of contracts that we have.
And I think for me, my first inclination is to say, "Okay, if I was to give them the benefit of the doubt, let's sit down and ask them, 'Hey, we can see what you've done in the network and the things that you've downloaded or emailed to an outside email address. Help us understand what your intention is and how you plan to use that.'" Most of them know right away "I've been caught." And so then you just start the recovery process as well as to start to talk about what the consequences are of taking any of that data and using it for unintended purposes or from outside of the organization. I would say over the years that's actually gotten less and less because of the education. Most employees now know they can see and they'll know and they can detect because companies have done a great job educating their employees on their security environments.
And what happens if you unintentionally lose a device, we remote wipe it, we can shut it down. All you have to do is report it, make sure that we're aware. And so I think where security used to be limited to the people who had security in their job title, it's now because everybody's responsibility and companies have done a really nice job educating everybody. So the bad actors around this I think are less frequent than what I've seen in the past because of that. They know they're likely going to get caught or someone's going to see what they've done. And even employers who, in the past, maybe an employee came and said, "Oh hey, I can tell you where I came from and the customer list that they have." They're like, "No, absolutely not. We don't even want to know that information. There's bad consequences for us for using data that we shouldn't be."
So you kind of have it coming from both sides of it where employees know better not to take it. Employers absolutely know better not to use data that they know they shouldn't have had access to or it came to them in a way that was less than high integrity.

Mike Anderson: Absolutely. It's interesting, you talk about that story. When I came on, I'd heard a story and it stuck with me. It's the whole, your brain will remember a story but it won't remember the facts and figures you put on a slide. And so someone told me the story about a customer. We were in a proof of value with and we were reviewing the results of the proof of value with a financial services customer. And we said, "Hey look, here's this person right here that just yesterday copied 1,200 files off to a personal dropbox account." And they said, "Whose that user ID and who was the person?" And then we told them. They said, "Wait a second. That person's in an exit interview down the hallway. You're going to have to give me a minute. I want to stop them before they leave the building."
I pivot that today, if I look before the pandemic, we still had remote workers. I've worked. My last company, I was at Schneider. I was traveling to Nashville or Boston every week, but then I'd work from home a day a week. A lot of people did that. And so we still had challenges, but most people were in the office. Now we've went to hybrid work with the pandemic where you said earlier, everyone went to or at work and now some companies have gone to a hybrid policy. Some have gone back to "everyone has to be in the office." I know you came from Anaplan. I know the CI over there. So as I think about that, how did you see that partnership change during the pandemic? What happened during that timeframe? How did it change and then what do you hope stays as we move forward now that we're really on the other side of the pandemic. What things got better and how do you make sure those things stick going forward?

Marilyn Miller: And as you mentioned prior to the pandemic, you probably had a small percentage of your workforce and maybe even every day. It was the overnight, 100% being entirely distributed and then distributed from there. So you weren't even co-located around hubs. People scattered across and I was at Anaplan at that time and I think one of the first things that we did was to pull everybody together. We obviously started with personal safety first and the psychological piece of the pandemic. But then after taking care of those highest priorities, the next thing was around business continuity. How are we going to continue to have the business continuity? Security was a big piece of that conversation and the connectivity, the ways that we could support our employees through that. That was a company that dealt with a lot of large scale customer data. We now had even the customer response around that.
If we had a crisis in the past, everyone come to the office and let's get in a room and solve this and figure this out. And we now had to try and solve these really complex customer problems in this highly distributed way. And so talking about how we were going to work and continue to solve problems, serve the customers, innovate, do that in a highly distributed way, kind of weaved through all that would be the security requirements of that kind of data sharing. Even the remote Zoom and WebEx and Teams environment that we went into. We had to make sure and check that all the security around all of the software, the other technology that we were using, really were going to meet the standards of the new way in which all of us were working. Like, does someone have responsibility for checking everybody who's called in here know that we know to a person who's on some of these calls when we're sharing data, having highly confidential company.
And that hadn't really been part of the pre pandemic set of protocols that you go through. But all of those, what seemingly could sound like small things, were super important in the early days of learning how to work in this new highly distributed, entirely remote environment.

Mike Anderson: So it was the start of a call with, "Please, no one takes screenshots of this information. It's not supposed to be shared." As right as you say that, everyone's taking screenshots and sharing them and then you're playing the hunting game, "Okay, who shared that with who?" And it wasn't even outside the company. It was inside the company. "It's okay, now everyone's an insider. Okay, we're just going to make everyone in the company's going to be an insider now because we don't know who's sharing this where." And all these new challenges that we had.

Marilyn Miller: Exactly. All those little things you had to think through and think about some of the security details or security solutions that we have now. It can detect if somebody takes a screenshot or an iPhone picture of highly sensitive, highly coveted, secure data and think about it. Like lots of those meetings that used to only be able to happen in person, you weren't allowed to come in virtually or remotely, board meetings. They all had to get pushed to the virtual and that became a real concern. So I expect that will be something that will really continue to evolve. I think we have to assume highly distributed hybrid, yes, there will be some companies that will ask employees to come back, but it's highly unlikely that will be five days a week because the workforce is sort of already signaled, "That's not sustainable," and it's not even necessary.
It's not an enhancer to productivity or innovation in some cases even green, like the environmental footprint of not having people commuting five days a week. So yeah, I think you're going to see the evolution of these security products continue to be imagined in a world where at least remote working is going to be the larger percentage of the way people join and stay with organizations.

Mike Anderson: Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out because we've seen even big companies like Salesforce saying, "Hey, the facts we're not coming into an office. What's having an impact on our productivity with new employees coming in?" And we went from the great resignation, which some would say, "We're kind of maybe still in it," but at the same time, and I think we're in the force resignation right now a little bit, especially in the tech sector with a lot of the layoffs we're seeing.
That's always one where I feel like there's got to be things leaving the building when there's people feel like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe I was just impacted with my job." Have you seen that play out in your time where you see more of that data leaving the building when there's these reductions like we're seeing today, because sometimes those are done three months, nine, six months ahead of time because of notice times you have to give in certain industries.

Marilyn Miller: So I think it's a great question. I actually think it's probably a better question for a chief people officer who's not the chief people officer at a data and security company, because again, I think our talent, our employees, our workforce is so much better educated and they're so aware of what our capabilities are that even if they were inclined to think, "Well, maybe I'll just download some of the things that I did," or "take some of this data and information with me," they know the probably absolute probability around that is we're going to be able to detect it. So like I said, it's hard for me to answer because I'm certainly not seeing an increase of that at Netskope. But I do think it's because of who we are, what we do, how much education, how much awareness, how much our employees are in tune with that so they're less likely to try and test the system around that.
Mais je pense que ce serait une question très intéressante pour d'autres directeurs des ressources humaines. Mais comme je l'ai dit, d'un autre côté, la plupart des employeurs ne veulent pas être associés ou faire partie de ceux qui ont embauché quelqu'un et qui apportent quelque chose avec eux. D'une part, cela en dit un peu plus sur la personne qu'ils viennent d'embaucher et qu'ils proposent d'apporter. Ils savent également que les conséquences pour eux sont importantes s'ils utilisent les données qu'ils ont obtenues par l'intermédiaire de quelqu'un qui a pris des données qu'ils n'auraient vraiment pas dû essayer de quitter.

Mike Anderson : Non, je suis tout à fait d'accord. Il est évident que votre perspective a changé depuis que vous travaillez dans une entreprise de cybersécurité, Netskope, et que vous protégez les données. Sachant ce que vous savez maintenant, cela fait plus de six mois, n'est-ce pas ? Je pense que cela fait plus de six mois...

Marilyn Miller : Oui, cela fait...

Mike Anderson : ... rejoint. Le temps passe vite.

Marilyn Miller : Oui, environ 10 mois.

Mike Anderson : 10 mois. Oui, c'est vrai. Non, je cherchais. Cela fait presque deux ans pour moi, je me dis : "Wow, le temps a passé vite." C'est comme des années de chat. Comment votre point de vue a-t-il changé et quels conseils donneriez-vous aux responsables des ressources humaines d'autres organisations ? Qu'avez-vous appris au cours de ces dix mois que vous diriez ensuite, "Si vous allez à un sommet Evanta Chief People Officer et que vous êtes assis autour de la table, quel conseil leur donneriez-vous ou qu'avez-vous appris depuis que vous êtes arrivé chez Netskope ?"

Marilyn Miller : Et je pense que c'est ce qu'il faut faire, Mike. Mais nouez ces partenariats et ces relations dès le départ. Comprendre la responsabilité partagée. Je pense que c'est vous qui l'avez le mieux dit au début. Il s'agit d'un sport d'équipe. Tout le monde doit contribuer aux aspects techniques, aux solutions technologiques, aux produits et aux stocks de sécurité des données et à la manière dont ils sont envisagés. Mais en tant que responsable des ressources humaines, votre tâche consiste à comprendre cela et à le concrétiser, à l'intégrer dans votre culture, dans vos valeurs. Il faut le mettre en avant dans l'organisation, en commençant par la manière dont vous recrutez, la manière dont vous embarquez, la manière dont vous continuez à former et à éduquer, en racontant les histoires et les récits, les raisons pour lesquelles c'est important, ce que vos clients attendent, les raisons pour lesquelles vous, en tant qu'employés, voulez faire partie de cela aussi. Une fois que l'ensemble de l'entreprise se l'approprie, je pense que cela change votre point de vue sur l'importance de cet aspect.
Nous pouvons avoir les meilleurs programmes d'attraction et de rétention des talents, de développement et autres, mais si vous portez atteinte à votre marque ou à votre réputation, beaucoup de ces choses disparaissent très rapidement et il est plus difficile de les reconstruire. Soyez donc proactif sur cette partie de votre rôle et sur la manière dont vous contribuez au succès global de l'organisation. Et rien n'est plus dommageable pour une entreprise qu'une violation de données ou un problème de sécurité des données, ou qu'une partie de votre propriété intellectuelle ou des données de vos clients quittant vos quatre murs. Cela fait donc partie de la façon dont vous envisagez votre valeur globale et de la façon dont vous donnez la priorité à l'établissement de vos relations avec les autres parties de l'organisation qui sont également responsables.

Mike Anderson : C'est un excellent conseil et je suis ravi que vous le partagiez, car nous aurons alors d'autres fans enthousiastes ou des personnes qui parleront de Netskope dans d'autres parties de l'organisation, ce qui générera plus d'affaires pour notre entreprise et aidera nos actionnaires. Vous avez soulevé un bon point. L'un d'entre eux, que vous avez évoqué, est le talent. Dans le domaine de la cybersécurité, j'ai toujours essayé d'apporter plus de diversité dans mes organisations informatiques, qu'il s'agisse de la diversité des sexes, de la diversité ethnique ou simplement de la diversité des pensées et des antécédents. Si je considère spécifiquement le défi de la diversité des genres auquel nous sommes confrontés aujourd'hui dans la cybernétique, si je regarde certaines des fonctions techniques, quelles sont les idées que vous pourriez avoir sur la manière dont nous pouvons apporter plus de diversité ? Je ne vois pas autant de femmes que je le souhaiterais dans notre organisation SE ou, par exemple, dans des rôles de type développement. Quelles sont les mesures que vous envisagez de prendre pour que davantage de femmes s'intéressent à ce type de fonctions ?

Marilyn Miller : Je pense qu'il y a deux ou trois choses que je voudrais partager avec vous. Premièrement, je pense qu'il faut commencer plus tôt. Comment pouvons-nous aborder l'éducation précoce et parler des types de carrières, de l'impact, du travail que vous pouvez faire, des entreprises pour lesquelles vous pouvez travailler et auxquelles vous pouvez être associé et commencer à inspirer dès le plus jeune âge. Quand je pense aux nombreux programmes STEM et au travail accompli, je me dis que vous commencez à susciter cet intérêt et que cela peut contribuer à façonner la façon dont ils envisagent leurs choix éducatifs et les voies qu'ils empruntent au lycée et après le lycée, ce qui conduira à un plus grand vivier de talents.
Une autre question à laquelle je pense est la suivante : comment faire la narration autour de ce sujet, comment raconter une histoire ? Par exemple, pourquoi ces emplois sont super intéressants, l'élément humain et l'aspect humain de la chose et s'assurer que cela est bien compris aussi.
Je pense que la sécurité a probablement eu la réputation de fonctionner de manière mystérieuse. Et je pense que le fait de pouvoir parler davantage de l'impact, du récit, de la narration, des façons dont cela contribue à attirer plus de talents dans le domaine également. Et une fois que nous sommes en mesure d'amener plus de femmes à occuper ces fonctions, comment nous assurer qu'elles sont bien préparées pour réussir ? Elles peuvent voir un parcours de carrière, elles voient d'autres femmes, des emplois importants et qui ont un impact. Je pense que tous ces éléments contribueront à orienter davantage de talents vers ces choix de carrière vraiment formidables et fantastiques.

Mike Anderson : Je suis tout à fait d'accord avec vous, c'est un excellent conseil. Je pense que la narration en général est l'une des meilleures compétences que l'on puisse avoir, car elle peut vous aider de bien des façons, qu'il s'agisse de traduire un sujet complexe ou d'amener les gens à s'imaginer dans ce rôle. Et je pense que c'est quelque chose dans lequel les gens regretteront de ne pas avoir investi davantage lorsqu'ils regarderont en arrière, et je pense qu'à terme, la gestion du changement commencera à jouer un rôle important dans la sécurité. Cela a toujours été le cas dans le domaine de l'informatique, mais je pense que la gestion du changement doit être un élément important de la sécurité à l'avenir.

Marilyn Miller : Oui, faire vivre ces emplois. Je veux dire par là que personne ne fait mieux que Sanjay Berry. Il est si convaincant. Il explique pourquoi ce que nous faisons est important et comment nous contribuons à protéger le monde, les données et toutes les choses que nous voyons se produire. Je pense que cela attire tous les talents vers ce type d'opportunités de carrière. Et plus nous y parviendrons, plus nous verrons un groupe de talents diversifié accéder à ces fonctions.

Mike Anderson : Oui, je suis tout à fait d'accord. Cette conversation a été très intéressante. J'aime toujours terminer notre podcast par quelques brèves. Nous allons donc les passer en revue très rapidement. J'ai donc trois questions à vous poser. Le premier que j'ai à vous demander est le meilleur conseil que vous ayez jamais reçu en matière de leadership.

Marilyn Miller : Je dirais qu'au début de ma carrière, j'ai eu un très bon mentor et champion qui m'a dit : "prenez des risques. Le prochain emploi n'est pas toujours évident, il n'est pas toujours linéaire, mais si vous pouvez apprendre quelque chose, cela vous met au défi de manière spécifique." Faites preuve d'ouverture d'esprit et faites des choses qui pourraient vous faire sortir de votre zone de confort. Cela m'a été très utile tout au long de ma carrière.

Mike Anderson : Oh, c'est très bien, un conseil en matière de leadership. Question suivante : quel serait votre dernier repas ?

Marilyn Miller : J'ai eu l'occasion de passer neuf jours à Florence cet automne. Je dirais donc n'importe quel plat italien. J'ai trop abusé pendant mon séjour, mais c'était fantastique.

Mike Anderson : Nous aurons l'occasion d'en reparler plus tard. J'aime l'Italie, donc, et j'aime aussi la nourriture. Ce sont donc deux bons sujets pour une conversation ultérieure. D'accord. Dernière question : qui admirez-vous le plus et pourquoi ?

Marilyn Miller : Oh, wow. C'est une question difficile. Je dirais qu'après avoir été directeur des ressources humaines et après avoir observé ce qui s'est passé ces deux dernières années, j'admire tous les parents qui travaillent, et en particulier les mères qui travaillent. Les rôles et les responsabilités qu'ils ont dû assumer, en conciliant vie familiale et vie professionnelle, suscitent une grande admiration de la part de cette population, c'est certain.

Mike Anderson : Non, je suis tout à fait d'accord. C'est drôle. Une amie m'a parlé de son mari qui, à l'époque de la pandémie, parlait de lever les enfants le matin et de tout ce qui s'ensuivait. Elle dit : "Je veux être un mari quand je serai grande." J'ai donc trouvé cela plutôt drôle. J'ai donc beaucoup apprécié cette conversation. Merci beaucoup. Je vous remercie de m'avoir accordé du temps et je me réjouis de travailler avec vous tous les jours.

Marilyn Miller : Oui, merci, Mike, et merci beaucoup de m'avoir invitée. Cela a été amusant et instructif pour moi, car le caractère réfléchi des questions m'a poussé à vraiment réfléchir à ce sujet. Ce fut un réel plaisir d'être ici aujourd'hui. Je vous remercie.

Mike Anderson : Je vous remercie. J'espère que vous avez apprécié l'épisode d'aujourd'hui de notre podcast sur les visionnaires de la sécurité. Nous avons été ravis d'accueillir Marilyn Miller, notre Chief People Officer chez Netskope. J'aime vraiment travailler avec elle tous les jours et chaque fois que j'ai l'occasion de l'écouter, les grandes idées qu'elle nous donne sont tout simplement incroyables. Les trois points clés que j'ai retenus de notre conversation d'aujourd'hui sont, avant tout, que vous devez intégrer la sécurité dans les valeurs et le tissu de votre organisation. Deuxièmement, il est important, tant du point de vue du directeur des ressources humaines que du point de vue du DSI et du RSSI, de collaborer le plus tôt et le plus souvent possible pour faire en sorte que la politique devienne réelle et qu'elle soit plus qu'une simple encyclopédie que les gens doivent lire, mais qu'elle devienne plus pratique.
Et puis le troisième, qui est un excellent conseil pour tout le monde, quel que soit le rôle, c'est la narration. Utilisez-le pour attirer les talents, utilisez-le pour transmettre des sujets complexes que vous savez être des compétences essentielles. J'espère que vous avez apprécié cet épisode du Security Visionary Podcast. Je suis Mike Anderson, votre hôte. Je suis le directeur des technologies de l'information et du numérique de Netskope.

Sponsor : Le podcast Security Visionaries est alimenté par l'équipe de Netskope. Rapide et facile à utiliser, la plateforme Netskope offre un accès optimisé et une sécurité sans confiance pour les personnes, les appareils et les données où qu'ils aillent, aidant ainsi les clients à réduire les risques, à accélérer les performances et à obtenir une visibilité inégalée dans toute activité d'application en nuage, Web ou privée. Pour en savoir plus sur la façon dont Netskope aide ses clients à être prêts à tout au cours de leur parcours SASE, visitez le site N-E-T-S-K-O-P-E.com.

Conférencier : Merci d'avoir écouté les Visionnaires de la sécurité. Veuillez prendre un moment pour évaluer et commenter l'émission et la partager avec quelqu'un que vous connaissez et qui pourrait l'apprécier. Restez à l'écoute des épisodes qui paraîtront toutes les deux semaines, et nous vous donnons rendez-vous pour le prochain.