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This episode features an interview with Emily Heath. Emily is the Senior Vice President and Chief Trust & Security Officer at DocuSign. Before her tenure as DocuSign’s Chief Trust & Security Officer, Emily served as CISO for United Airlines and AECOM, held various other technology and strategy leadership roles, and began her career as a fraud squad detective in the UK police force.

On this episode, Emily explains why ransomware is the fastest growing risk in cyber security today, how the pandemic affected DocuSign and Emily’s role, and why she predicts CSOs are going to be some of the highest paid professionals in the future.

This landscape is changing and it comes to a point where I honestly believe CSOs are going to be some of the highest paid professionals in the future.

—Emily Heath, Senior Vice President and Chief Trust & Security Officer at DocuSign
Emily Heath

 

Timestamps

*(2:40) - How Emily and Jason met
*(3:10) - Emily’s first security job
*(4:10) - Emily’s current role at DocuSign
*(5:15) - Segment: Taboo Topics
*(6:35) - Paying ransom or not paying ransom
*(8:00) - Other rapid growing risks that people aren’t aware of
*(10:35) - Segment: Deep Dive
*(12:15) - Careers are jigsaw puzzles
*(15:05) - Differences and similarities between United Airlines and DocuSign
*(17:35) - The “Trust” portion of Emily’s DocuSign title explained
*(21:25) - How the pandemic affected Docusign and Emily’s role
*(26:50) - Segment: Feeling vulnerable
*(27:55) - Emily’s thoughts on gut made decisions vs. data/biased made decisions
*(31:25) - Why CSOs are leaving their jobs
*(37:40) - What retirement looks like for Emily
*(39:30) - Segment: Into the Future
*(42:40) - Segment: Quick Hits

 

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On this episode

Emily Heath
Senior Vice President and Chief Trust & Security Officer at Docusign

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Emily Heath

Before joining DocuSign, Emily Heath served as the CISO for United Airlines in Chicago for almost three years. Prior to that role, she was the CISO at AECOM in San Francisco, held various technology and strategy leadership roles at companies in southern California, and began her career as a fraud squad detective in the UK police force. Heath is also a Board Member for LogicGate, the National Technology Security Coalition, and the Security Advisors Alliance. She is also an Advisory Board Member for Cyberstarts Venture Capital Fund.

Jason Clark
Chief Strategy and Marketing Officer at Netskope

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Jason Clark

Jason brings decades of experience building and executing successful strategic security programs to Netskope.

He was previously the chief security and strategy officer for Optiv, developing a comprehensive suite of solutions to help CXO executives enhance their security strategies and accelerate alignment of those strategies with the business. Prior to Optiv, Clark held a leadership role at Websense, where he was a driving force behind the company’s transformation into a provider of critical technology for chief information security officers (CISOs). In a prior role as CISO and vice president of infrastructure for Emerson Electric, Clark significantly decreased the company’s risk by developing and executing a successful security program for 140,000 employees across 1,500 locations. He was previously CISO for The New York Times, and has held security leadership and technical roles at EverBank, BB&T and the U.S. Army.

Emily Heath

Before joining DocuSign, Emily Heath served as the CISO for United Airlines in Chicago for almost three years. Prior to that role, she was the CISO at AECOM in San Francisco, held various technology and strategy leadership roles at companies in southern California, and began her career as a fraud squad detective in the UK police force. Heath is also a Board Member for LogicGate, the National Technology Security Coalition, and the Security Advisors Alliance. She is also an Advisory Board Member for Cyberstarts Venture Capital Fund.

Jason Clark

Jason brings decades of experience building and executing successful strategic security programs to Netskope.

He was previously the chief security and strategy officer for Optiv, developing a comprehensive suite of solutions to help CXO executives enhance their security strategies and accelerate alignment of those strategies with the business. Prior to Optiv, Clark held a leadership role at Websense, where he was a driving force behind the company’s transformation into a provider of critical technology for chief information security officers (CISOs). In a prior role as CISO and vice president of infrastructure for Emerson Electric, Clark significantly decreased the company’s risk by developing and executing a successful security program for 140,000 employees across 1,500 locations. He was previously CISO for The New York Times, and has held security leadership and technical roles at EverBank, BB&T and the U.S. Army.

Episode transcript

Open for transcript

Emily Heath (00:00): This landscape is changing and it comes to a point where I honestly believe CSOs are going to be some of the highest paid professionals in the future, and it's already heading in that direction over the last few years. We've seen a lot of change already, but this is going to be one of the most highest paid jobs in business because it will get to a point that you're not going to be able to pay people enough money to take on this amount of risk.

Producer (00:25): Hello and welcome to Security Visionaries, hosted by Jason Clark, chief security officer and chief strategy officer at Netskope. You just heard from today's guest Emily Heath, senior vice president and chief trust and security officer at DocuSign. It's been said that you don't get paid for how much you work, but for how much responsibility you have. And in today's modern business world managing risk is a massive responsibility. As cybersecurity threats dominate the headlines the role of security leads, whether they're chief security officers or chief information security officer, becomes one of the most important functions in the C-suite.

Producer (01:06): They're responsible for safeguarding the data, money, and everything else vital to the business. The role is anything but easy, and as Emily points out, individuals capable of shouldering this burden are going to become some of the most sought after executives in the world. And Emily isn't backing down from the challenge. In fact, she's encouraging her fellow CSOs not to either. Before her tenure as DocuSign's chief trust and security officer, Emily served as CSO for United Airlines and AECOM, held various other technology and strategy leadership roles, and began her career as a fraud squad detective in the UK police force. But before we dive in and hear more from Emily, here's a word from our sponsor.

Sponsor (01:50): The Security Visionaries Podcast is powered by the team at Netskope. Netskope is the sassy leader offering everything you need to provide a fast, data centric, and cloud smart user experience at the speed of business today. Learn more at netskope.com.

Producer (02:08): Without further ado, please enjoy episode three of Security Visionaries with your host Jason Clark and Emily Heath, senior vice president and chief trust and security officer at DocuSign.

Jason Clark (02:21): So welcome to Security Visionaries, I am your CSO at Netskope. Today I am joined by a very special guest and good friend, Emily Heath. Emily, how are you?

Emily Heath (02:31): Jason, always a pleasure to see you. Doing well, thanks.

Jason Clark (02:34): I was thinking about this conversation. I'm thinking, when did I meet Emily? Do you remember when the first time we ever met was?

Emily Heath (02:42): God, now you're going by a few years, buddy. Probably, I don't know was it Security Advisors Alliance in Dallas?

Jason Clark (02:51): Right.

Emily Heath (02:51): Right? Yeah, it was.

Jason Clark (02:53): Yes, the Advisor Alliance in Dallas and I remember you, I remember it was actually at the bar and we both were ordering I think it was

. Emily Heath (03:02): That would be a good choice.

Jason Clark (03:05): And then we were like, hey, and we just kind of started talking. I think that was probably six or seven years ago.

Emily Heath (03:09): Yeah.

Jason Clark (03:10): So getting started what was your first, tell us about your first security job.

Emily Heath (03:14): Oh my gosh. Well my very first security job goes way back 25, 30 years or so. I used to be a police officer in England, I was a detective for many years. And this is kind of about the era when cyber wasn't really a thing back then but computer crime was starting to be a thing. And so I worked in the financial crimes unit in what we called the fraud squad, and that was the unit that was responsible for computer crime. And it was completely foreign to me at the time, I mean going back in those days you used to go do a raid on a business or a home, and you'd come out with hundreds of bankers boxes full of contracts and documents. And it's just such a turn to see how that now is all translated to cyber. But I like to think that from a cyber perspective that was probably the very first job trying to dissect computers.

Jason Clark (04:09): And tell us a little bit about your job today and your current role at DocuSign.

Emily Heath (04:12): Yeah, so my job at DocuSign now is a little varied actually. So I'm the chief trust and security officer, so there's a couple of sides to that. There's the usual cyber security related stuff that you would imagine, security architecture, engineering, security operations, and all of those things. I also have the governance risk and compliance group. I have fraud, physical security, health and safety as well. And then the trust side of the job is actually a very customer facing side of the job. So DocuSign as many people know is a really trusted platform because we're a part of our customer's ecosystem, security and trust is super important. So I spent a ton of time with customers now, which I love.

Jason Clark (04:53): I think that's something that's going to continue to evolve for every company that is a [inaudible 00:05:00] technology organization. [inaudible 00:05:02] economy that is, the chief trust and security officer being very engaged with the customers will come, I think, the norm.

Emily Heath (05:11): Yeah, exactly.

Jason Clark (05:12): So getting, our first kind of segment here is taboo topics.

Jason Clark (05:26): Well this segment's about security taboos, misconceptions, controversy. And by the way, you can ask me anything, bring up anything you want to bring up. But the first question for you on this is what do you believe is the fastest growing risk in cyber security today, right? That effects most companies?

Emily Heath (05:43): Yeah. God, there's so many of them it's hard to choose one. I think ransomware is the one that just brings to mind just because you think about the monetization of crime when it comes to cyber, these attacks are no longer just to inconvenience organizations or bragging rights, there's a lot of money in this crime. Long gone are the days where somebody walks into a bank with a [inaudible 00:06:07] shotgun and walks away with $20,000 at best. I mean you're talking millions and tens of millions for these types of crimes. So I think ransom is, we're just seeing the beginning of it. And the more and more you see that companies are paying ransoms, it's just going to proliferate the problem. So it's a trend unfortunately I don't think is going anywhere anytime soon.

Jason Clark (06:30): So it's the new bank robber basically, right?

Emily Heath (06:34): Yeah.

Jason Clark (06:34): So what's your thoughts around, kind of this feeling like this taboo topic, what do you feel around should companies be paying the ransom or not be paying the ransom? What should legislation be around that?

Emily Heath (06:45): God, it's such a tough one. I don't even know where the legislation can be involved in that. It's a really slippery slope because there's a cost of doing business, and if this becomes a new cost of doing business, I mean I'm not advocating for it in any way shape or form, but every organization is different and until it hits you and until your operations are the ones that are crippled, it's really difficult to say whether or not you should or shouldn't pay a ransom. I mean we all know that there's never any guarantee that you're going to get out the other side of it anyway. But if you look at some of the companies recently that have paid ransoms, we are not in the room, we don't know the impact to their actual business function. And I just, I'm not sure whether this is going to end up being a legislation issue, it's a business issue.

Jason Clark (07:34): Yeah. I mean sometimes it can mean lives, right? I mean getting electricity turned back on or getting the medical systems you need turned back on, that shouldn't be a choice that is made because of a law, right? And when you look at it, ransom is obviously a very, very hard problem and we just need to obviously get better at everything. I think, curious like if you think about ransoms, okay that's one, but what's one that you think people are not aware of? What's the fastest growing risk as a CSO? What do you think is growing that a lot of IT organizations, a lot of boards are unaware of? So ransoms in the news ev